mary_j_59 | What's wrong with Christian Zionism? (If not now, when?)

I am deeply upset by the news of the world, and thus I'm posting something rather controversial. One of the driving forces in U.S. politics is Christian Zionism. I have many problems with that philosophy, if philosophy it can be called.

First, as a Jewish friend noted, it is profoundly anti-Semitic. Christian Zionists believe that all Jews, everywhere, should go and live in Israel. That is not what I believe. I believe Jewish people should be able to live, as free and equal citizens, in any country they choose. Israel might be one of those countries; it might not. If a majority of Jews choose instead to live in the U.S., that is their absolute right! When Christian Zionism arose in late 19th-century England, one of its goals was to get all the English Jews to leave and go "back" to Palestine.

But the anti-Semitism doesn't end there. Not only must all Jewish people leave their homes and go to Israel, but also, once they do, the end times will begin. Those Jews who do not convert to millennial Christianity will be killed and (presumably) condemned to hell. I honestly don't think God is that small-minded.

Then there are the indigenous people of the country that was called Palestine for almost two millennia. They are also Semites. Christian Zionists absolutely do not care what happens to them.

But not only is this philosophy anti-Semitic, it is also theologically suspect. You may or may not believe in God. Surely, if there is a God - a creator of the Universe! - he or she is not so small-minded as to desire the destruction of almost all the Semitic people. I cannot believe in a God like that!

Nor can I believe in a God who requires us to do evil that good may come. But that is what Christian Zionism requires. Those who believe it see the end times as the good they are working toward. It is evil to deny people the right to live wherever they like because they are Jews. It is evil to condone the robbery and murder of Indigenous people because they are not Jews. Yes, these things are evil! War is also evil, and, as I understand it, Christian Zionists look forward to Armageddon. This brings me to my last point.

C.S. Lewis has a refrain in his Narnia books, referring to Aslan, the Lion who in that world is the image of Christ. "He's not a tame lion", Aslan's subjects say. They mean two things: they cannot fully understand Aslan, who is wiser and more powerful than they. They also cannot control him. Christian Zionists seek to control God by their own actions, and, if you believe in God, that is very, very wrong. It makes it even worse that - as I said in the previous paragraph - they seek to control God via violence towards innocent human beings, especially the Palestinians.

These are my quarrels with Christian Zionism.It has, unfortunately, great sway in my country, and influences our foreign policy. I wish it were not so. It is a sort of deadly literalism, and it has caused great harm to many - ourselves included. It is heresy, like all literalism, and heresy kills.

"For the letter killeth, and the spirit giveth life."

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I would really like to ask: at least among Catholics, what is the "general idea" of gauging God's Will? For instance, all those LGBT- and women-oppressing things are being done in God's name, what sort of "karma" is supposed to befall onto these bigots to maybe let them rethink their ways? This is rhetorical, actually, I've been thinking that they keep doing that kind of gleeful sh*t because nothing bad's happening to them therefore God must approve, nevermind that a lot of people are actively against them. Apparantly to them "Vox Populi, vox Dei." means squat. Well, there's always hell to look forward for them, I guess.

Edited 2014-08-02 14:42 (UTC)

Is this rhetorical? I'm not really being snarky; I'd like to know if you'd like an answer. The short answer is that Catholicism, in itself, is very varied. So you can't necessarily tell what a person will think about something when they proclaim, as I just did, "I'm a Catholic". There is, of course, some common ground. I'm not a theologian and I don't want to lead you astray, but these are the basics, as I understand them:
1. We believe that Jesus Christ (who, by the way, was an actual Palestinian Jew who lived under Roman occupation - Christ did exist, whether you think him divine or not) was the son of God.
2. We believe in God the father, God the son, and God the Holy Spirit. We also believe that our Blessed Mother gave birth to Christ through the Holy Spirit.
3. We believe in the Sacraments instituted by Christ and the Apostles, We believe Jesus is really present to us in the seven Sacraments, and that He gave them to us to strengthen us and guide us. In particular, Christ is actually present in Communion.
4. We believe we are all, without exception, called to the Imitation of Christ and his Saints. Every human being has a particular calling and purpose in life, and all of us are required to further God's creation and begin building his kingdom here on earth.

That said (and there's a lot more. As I said, I'm a laywoman, and I haven't studied a lot of theology) - that said, I do believe that the Church is, in part, a human institution. And we humans are imperfect. In the long run, the Church will get things right. But, as a priest friend I love and respect said, we are still in our spiritual infancy. We have a long way to go.

Christ himself summed up the four points I made above into one. Love. We are to love each other as God loves us, and love our neighbors as ourselves. Christ said, "That is the whole of the Law. The rest is just commentary."

I honestly don't know, since it is a Sacrament, what I think about gay couples getting married in Church, I do feel strongly that all the other Sacraments (including ordination to the religious life) ought to be open to them, and I also believe strongly in civil unions and equal rights for gay couples. As to the role of women in the Church - as I said, the Church is a human institution. At the beginning, before the 10th century, we had deaconesses and at least one Abbess had a major voice in a synod (Mother Hild, at Whitby). We need to get back to that, and we're starting to. As I said, we have a long way to go, and the Church is imperfect.

And, alas, you can find legalists and literalists and people driven by fear and anger in all faiths - and, presumably in none.

The Church should not oppress anybody. Unfortunately, it often has. Flannery O'Connor, Cathollic writer, said, "The Church is the cross on which Christ was crucified. But you can't have Christ without the cross." I don't know what you'll think of this. I find it helpful, at least sometimes. At other times it can seem a cop-out.

That's really about as much as I can say about this issue. I hope it is helpful to you. Just ignore it if it's not.

Oh, by the way, we've rather strayed from the original post since Christian Zionizm isn't a Catholic heresy. We've got other problems, but not that one.

1. By "this is rhetorical" i meant my own line of though and my own silly ruminations on Christianity, i'm very appreciative of your answers provided and would not presume to tell you what you should or shouldn't say, at least not here on your own turf.

2. I really did derail the thread, sorry; when my full reply comes I shall stick more to the topic at hand.

Edited 2014-08-03 00:34 (UTC)

That's okay! You didn't derail it very far. After all, my impetus for writing this post was and is the truly awful things people do to other people in the name of religion. And that, unfortunately, happens in all religions, mine included.

What's wrong with Christian Zionism? (If not now, when?)

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