I was thinking "The Gods" specifically, rather than "Heaven." But "Heaven" is a direct quote, and I like it!
There are a couple of gods that feature pretty prominently in the story, but I don't suppose you could call the book "Lord of Chance,"or anything like that. (I like him, somehow, although I certainly don't want to meet him!)
I'm going to think a little more.
People seem to be tending towards the sword -- which does make a nice, strong title, too!
But you also want to draw new, uninvolved, readers in.
While not utterly mis-representing what your story is about.
So.
I thought, The Honor of the Dead. Then, Fighting against (not "to fight with) Heaven.
How about splitting the difference?
A Sword against the Gods
Grappling with while not actually contradicting the universe you're creating, while replicating Kiril's--well, his isolation and his lingering faith and his idealism and his hopelessness, yes? And it allows you as author to be simultaneously believer and atheist...
And I think it captures Kiril and Thanike's odd position of being True Believer-Accepted Follower/Avowed Renegade--Known Traitor.....
And, after all (re my suggested title), if the gods had ever wanted Kiril NOT to raise his Mum's sword against them, They had only ever to say so.....
Butif that were the title, you'd have to rewrite the first chapter to show that Kiril and Niki were taking on, not just the legalese, the judicial apparatus, of their world in that great Renunciation:
They were defying apparently succsessfully) supernatural retribution.
"A sword against the gods" is cool! I like it! "To Fight with Heaven" is a little awkward - it's Kiril speaking English and translating on the fly - but it's a direct quote, which is why I kept that phrasing. But I think yours is a little better. I also thought of "Battling the gods". The only thing that bothers me about these titles is that they seem so high fantasy. And that's one thing my book definitely is not. Still - good suggestion.
Maybe the 'with/against' thing is a dialect question? To me, when you fight with someone, they are your opponent, not your ally!
And, after all (re my suggested title), if the gods had ever wanted Kiril NOT to raise his Mum's sword against them, They had only ever to say so.....
But, in this culture, to do battle with the Gods is the height of piety! Thus the last line of the story - in both its retellings. Well, all three at this point.
But that's exactly why I love your title so much. It gets at that paradox even for people who don't know anything about the story.
So the sword (as the symbol, or concrete manifestation, of their/their family's honor) would have to be added to the list of what these children are formally renouncing.
So that their actions cannot tarnish it. If deemed to be dishonorable. Any more than their relatives, or their servants, can be held responsible for any crimes they might commit.
To make this work, you might have to name the thing, and invest the sword itself with a more formal prssence than you have. And make it clear, not just that bearing A sword (and the right/duty to duel to the death) is the treasured privilege of the nobility, but that each noble house has a specific, heirloom, sword.
I'm not sure, Terri. (This is Terri, isn't it?) Of course the sword was named during the renunciation - EVERYTHING was! - but I don't really think I need to make its role as a symbol of freedom clear at this stage of the game. In fact, I don't think I want to do anything as heavy-handed as giving the sword a name! (After all, it's not Excalibur or Anduril, nor is Kiril Aragorn or Arthur. He's just a young freeman, a sprig of minor nobility, whose ancestor was a servant and whose stepmother is a slave.)To me, your title works because it is as true to the young MC and his goals and character as "honor" is, and because it is more intriguing. I think a reader, coming across such a title, would be curious about what it promised. And that's why it's a better title than "honor", even though for me it works essentially as a rephrasing. The story is all about the last sentences of the legend. Both your title and my original one get at that, but yours is a lot more evocative.
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Well, Mary, I didn't vote yet, but...
I was thinking "The Gods" specifically, rather than "Heaven." But "Heaven" is a direct quote, and I like it!
There are a couple of gods that feature pretty prominently in the story, but I don't suppose you could call the book "Lord of Chance,"or anything like that. (I like him, somehow, although I certainly don't want to meet him!)
I'm going to think a little more.
People seem to be tending towards the sword -- which does make a nice, strong title, too!
I'll keep thinking :-D
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As to Etan, Lord of Chance - no! I wouldn't want to meet him, either. I picture him looking a bit like Dr. Bashir, for what it's worth. :)
Titles
But you also want to draw new, uninvolved, readers in.
While not utterly mis-representing what your story is about.
So.
I thought, The Honor of the Dead. Then, Fighting against (not "to fight with) Heaven.
How about splitting the difference?
A Sword against the Gods
Grappling with while not actually contradicting the universe you're creating, while replicating Kiril's--well, his isolation and his lingering faith and his idealism and his hopelessness, yes? And it allows you as author to be simultaneously believer and atheist...
And I think it captures Kiril and Thanike's odd position of being True Believer-Accepted Follower/Avowed Renegade--Known Traitor.....
And, after all (re my suggested title), if the gods had ever wanted Kiril NOT to raise his Mum's sword against them, They had only ever to say so.....
Butif that were the title, you'd have to rewrite the first chapter to show that Kiril and Niki were taking on, not just the legalese, the judicial apparatus, of their world in that great Renunciation:
They were defying apparently succsessfully) supernatural retribution.
Re: Titles
Maybe the 'with/against' thing is a dialect question? To me, when you fight with someone, they are your opponent, not your ally!
Re: Titles
And, after all (re my suggested title), if the gods had ever wanted Kiril NOT to raise his Mum's sword against them, They had only ever to say so.....
But, in this culture, to do battle with the Gods is the height of piety! Thus the last line of the story - in both its retellings. Well, all three at this point.
But that's exactly why I love your title so much. It gets at that paradox even for people who don't know anything about the story.
Thanks again; I really love your suggestion!
Re: Titles
(Anonymous) 2014-03-14 05:34 am (UTC)(link)... this story starts with the renunciation.
So the sword (as the symbol, or concrete manifestation, of their/their family's honor) would have to be added to the list of what these children are formally renouncing.
So that their actions cannot tarnish it. If deemed to be dishonorable. Any more than their relatives, or their servants, can be held responsible for any crimes they might commit.
To make this work, you might have to name the thing, and invest the sword itself with a more formal prssence than you have. And make it clear, not just that bearing A sword (and the right/duty to duel to the death) is the treasured privilege of the nobility, but that each noble house has a specific, heirloom, sword.
Re: Titles
So thanks again! I really love it!