How, how, did we get back to arguing about SWM? Will it ever go away?! I think that, at this point, people have formed their views on Snape and it's not going to be possible to change each others' minds. So we should probably stop trying. The main thrust of my post wasn't about Snape, anwyay. It was about how offensive I find these books after DH.
But, as far as SWM goes, what I actually said about this scene is the following: I think it's possible for a reader to sympathize with, and be critical of, both Sev and Lily in the Pensieve scene. That is exactly how I read this scene. I do not try to justify or explain away Severus's every action. I never have.
All the same, what some people have pointed out is true. Lily does NOT defend him in any meaningful way - has the girl never heard of "Finite Incantatem"? She stands there arguing with James while her supposed best friend is immobilized and choking on bubbles. I wasn't even thinking of her failure to act in this scene, though (and she was a prefect. It was her responsibility to stop bullying, even if Sev had been her worst enemy.) No, she had already sided with his tormentors when she refused to listen to him about the werewolf caper. But she listened to James! This happened before SWM, and I see it as a betrayal.
What I see in these scenes, really, is a kid being very thoroughly prejudged. OF COURSE he calls Muggleborns Mudbloods; he's a Slytherin, and that's what Slytherins do. OF COURSE he's going to run off and join Voldemort! *After all, aren't all his Slytherin friends Death Eaters? OF COURSE he's a Dark Arts geek! He's ugly and dirty and wants to be in Slytherin, and all the Slytherins are Dark Arts geeks. But there is no evidence in the Half-Blood Prince's notebook that he is Dark in any way - until the later spells. It's easy to surmise that the boy turned dark after his best friend abandoned him, and he realized that no adult in the school would lift a finger to protect him. This does not, of course, excuse his racism (which came as a shock to me in DH, since there is really no hint of it in any of the other books.) But - if you get told over and over that you are dark, evil and worthless; if the only people offering you safety and validation are a bunch of racists, you are all too likely to side with the racists. The post below about cults is spot on.
Does this excuse his behavior toward Lily? Of course not! And I never said it did. I don't think anyone can deny, after DH, that young Sev was a racist. And that's ugly. On that point, I can see where you're coming from.
That's all from me, for now. I really, really am tired of arguing about Severus Snape, Harry Potter, and the Wizarding World generally. These books just make me sad and angry. But I'd like to add one thing: you are right about Whitehound's apologia. She is strongly biased in favor of Snape. And she does try to whitewash a couple of instances (there are really only a couple in the books) when the man is just plain nasty and wrong. (If you are wondering which ones, I'd say the "teeth" remark and his treatment of Trevor. The last, especially, just seems out of character; the first, unfortunately, does not. There are times when Snape is a jerk.)
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What I'm wondering is-
Date: 2009-08-12 02:29 pm (UTC)But, as far as SWM goes, what I actually said about this scene is the following: I think it's possible for a reader to sympathize with, and be critical of, both Sev and Lily in the Pensieve scene. That is exactly how I read this scene. I do not try to justify or explain away Severus's every action. I never have.
All the same, what some people have pointed out is true. Lily does NOT defend him in any meaningful way - has the girl never heard of "Finite Incantatem"? She stands there arguing with James while her supposed best friend is immobilized and choking on bubbles. I wasn't even thinking of her failure to act in this scene, though (and she was a prefect. It was her responsibility to stop bullying, even if Sev had been her worst enemy.) No, she had already sided with his tormentors when she refused to listen to him about the werewolf caper. But she listened to James! This happened before SWM, and I see it as a betrayal.
What I see in these scenes, really, is a kid being very thoroughly prejudged. OF COURSE he calls Muggleborns Mudbloods; he's a Slytherin, and that's what Slytherins do. OF COURSE he's going to run off and join Voldemort! *After all, aren't all his Slytherin friends Death Eaters? OF COURSE he's a Dark Arts geek! He's ugly and dirty and wants to be in Slytherin, and all the Slytherins are Dark Arts geeks. But there is no evidence in the Half-Blood Prince's notebook that he is Dark in any way - until the later spells. It's easy to surmise that the boy turned dark after his best friend abandoned him, and he realized that no adult in the school would lift a finger to protect him. This does not, of course, excuse his racism (which came as a shock to me in DH, since there is really no hint of it in any of the other books.) But - if you get told over and over that you are dark, evil and worthless; if the only people offering you safety and validation are a bunch of racists, you are all too likely to side with the racists. The post below about cults is spot on.
Does this excuse his behavior toward Lily? Of course not! And I never said it did. I don't think anyone can deny, after DH, that young Sev was a racist. And that's ugly. On that point, I can see where you're coming from.
That's all from me, for now. I really, really am tired of arguing about Severus Snape, Harry Potter, and the Wizarding World generally. These books just make me sad and angry. But I'd like to add one thing: you are right about Whitehound's apologia. She is strongly biased in favor of Snape. And she does try to whitewash a couple of instances (there are really only a couple in the books) when the man is just plain nasty and wrong. (If you are wondering which ones, I'd say the "teeth" remark and his treatment of Trevor. The last, especially, just seems out of character; the first, unfortunately, does not. There are times when Snape is a jerk.)