A few things - (mostly Potter - related)
Aug. 4th, 2009 10:18 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
mary_j_59Just a brief ramble on two subjects:
1. Why Harry Potter is like Titanic, and why both of them annoy me, inspired by a conversation with Darkthirty.
2. Why Snape isn't weak, inspired by reading Mike-Smith, who thinks he is.
3. Finally, my problem with superheroes. Inspired by the conversation above.
I am, of course, starting with the first. Here is a quote from "The Independent". It's by Andrew Gumbel, and dated January, 2002.
The producers of Titanic besmirched the reputation of a Scottish officer called William Murdoch by depicting him shooting at the passengers in panic – an act committed by someone else entirely. After Murdoch's family pointed out that their ancestor was in fact a hero who gave away his own lifejacket, the producers gave $5,000 (£3,500) which went to a fund in Murdoch's name.
To which I said, good for Murdoch's family for complaining! That scene, among other things, annoyed me mightily when I saw Titanic. But it was not just an (eventually corrected) slander on a brave man. It was a part of a larger problem with the movie. Unlike the classic 1958 version, the new Hollywood film emphasizes the cowardice of the crew. We scarcely ever see a crewman simply doing his job, much less acting noble about it. Yet, according to the historic record, most of the men on board did exactly that, and that is why most of them died.
This brings me to my much, much larger problem with the movie. It is dealing with a real-life tragedy in which hundreds of innocent human beings died, and it attempts to make that tragedy more "interesting" by tacking on a contrived love story between a couple of fictional passengers. Then it ramps up the so-called interest by including cliched scenes - the young couple making love in the back seat of a car, the arrogant upper-class fiance pursuing the virtuous working-class youth with a pistol, and then cheating his way onto a lifeboat - that are apparently supposed to add drama to the story. This is offensive in the extreme. Again, we are dealing with a real-life tragedy in which more than 1,500 people died! Any movie about the Titanic should focus on that - not on a fictional love affair, or a necklace lost to the depths, or a painting of questionable value (and, when that so-called work of art was pulled intact from a safe that had been underwater for a couple of generations, any slack I'd been cutting the movie was gone for good.) I thought this film dishonored the dead.
How does this relate to Harry Potter? Quite simply, Rowling makes similar, and deliberate, use of the Nazi Holocaust. One can quibble about numbers, but there is simply no denying that anywhere up to 10 million human beings died in the Nazi camps and ghettos. (Jews, Poles, Russians, Gypsies, dissidents of all kinds - and the handicapped. They are too often forgotten.) And - Rowling uses the Nazi classification of half-bloods, and has it used by her good guys. She has the bad guys talking about blood purity, and giving something uncomfortably like the Nazi salute. She makes her chief villain a half-blood. There is simply no doubt that all of this is deliberate - but, as far as I can see, she doesn't deal with these very serious issues seriously. Instead, like the producers of Titanic she tacks on a non-story about a hero who never grows up. She throws in a lot of cliches from school stories, and, worst of all, by implication and in interviews, she says her bad guys are right! Magic really is genetic; all Muggleborns really do have a Wizarding ancestor somewhere; and Muggles who steal wands can produce bursts of uncontrolled (and therefore dangerous) magic.
Now, it's bad enough that she proves her villains right in her interviews, and that her hero ends up so unlikable. Far worse is that she is making use of a real tragedy to tell her story, and is not dealing seriously with that tragedy. It's highly offensive. What makes it even worse is the number of readers who simply accept her story as it stands and think that all is really well in the Wizarding World at the end of this saga. Nothing is well in the Wizarding World. Nothing at all. I would feel happier with these books if I could be certain Rowling meant that, but I would still dislike her borrowing Nazi imagery for her villains. It's tacky at best, and offensive at worst.
2. Now, the second question. Mike Smith insists that Severus Snape is weak because he did everything for Lily, who did not love him after his insult to her. He's not alone in thinking so; even some Snape fans are saying that DH Severus is a weaker character than they had imagined. Mr. Smith also said he agrees with Rowling, and that Severus is a worse person than Voldemort for betraying his beloved - because he was loved, and Voldemort never was. Let's look at these questions.
The betrayal, first. There are several things wrong with the story Rowling finally gave us. For one thing, we never really understand what Dark Arts are, why young Severus was attracted to them (if he was; that's not so clear, either), and why he joined the Death Eaters in the first place. But, even given all these open questions, it's quite clear that Severus did not know he was betraying Lily when he reported the prophecy. Heck, it's even doubtful that the prophecy refers to a baby. I was among the readers who thought it could mean Severus himself. A second problem, though, is even harder to understand. Given that Sev was a Death Eater at the time, it makes some sense that he might report the prophecy. But - why didn't Dumbledore stop him? He was a kid, no more than 20 or 21, and, Aberforth had him by the collar. Dumbledore was a mature, powerful wizard. He has had no problems confunding and obliviating others in the story - then why not do likewise to Severus? But Aberforth and Albus let the boy go to do whatever he wanted - and then Albus Dumbledore, at least, blamed him for acting in a way that was easy to anticipate. This makes no sense.
So the story of the prophecy, in the end, just doesn't hang together. Maybe, though, Mike is talking about an earlier betrayal? Maybe he means that Sev betrayed Lily when he became a Death Eater.
This is possible, but it again requires several assumptions. First, you need to assume that Severus knew Voldemort's true agenda, and also approved of it. This is doubtful. After all, as I mentioned above, anti-Muggle racism is rife on the "good side" in the Wizarding World. And we don't know how Voldemort presented his agenda to his impressionable young followers. We do know that he snagged most of them very young.
Second, you need to assume that Sev really was a Dark Arts geek and really believed in Voldemort's agenda (however it was presented). This is also doubtful. I simply do not see a power-hungry or sadistic person in the rather gentle, lost soul Rowling presents to us, particularly in the last book. It seems likely that he joined for companionship, belonging, or even protection.
This brings me to my third point. If Severus betrayed Lily by joining the Death Eaters, she also betrayed him, much earlier. She sided with his tormentors. And we know from DH that they began tormenting him without cause, and they were relentless. I think it's possible for a reader to sympathize with, and be critical of, both Sev and Lily in the Pensieve scene. But, as Jodel has remarked, the Wizarding World is very small. Once you are typed in school, there is no escape. If an influential and wealthy group within this world made your life a living hell for seven years, and if someone opposed that group and offered you (1) protection, and (2) a chance to get back at them, wouldn't you be tempted?
This brings me to the question of Severus as (1) more culpable than Riddle, because he has been loved, and (2) weak. After I read DH, one of my first questions was, "Who loved Severus"? Lily certainly didn't. Yes, they had a casual, childish friendship, but I wouldn't call that love. That Severus did, and that he clung to Lily so desperately, indicates just how bleak his life was. It seems that he never got unconditional love from anyone - not his parents, not Lily, and certainly not Dumbledore.
Young Tom Riddle was emotionally neglected. His mother abandoned him because of her death, and he grew up in an orphanage. I understand that even negative attention is better than no attention, but negative attention can be pretty damaging, and, based on his reactions, I'd guess that's what young Sev got. He doesn't seem to know how to relate to people, and he accepts emotional abuse as his due. Is that weak?
I can see why some readers would think so. I don't. As I've said before, Severus, as a young adult*, shows clear signs of clinical depression. That he remembers what little affection he received with such faithfulness and gratitude (shown by his patronus); that he soldiers on and meets all his obligations; that he manages to grow morally and emotionally with no support at all, however stunted he may still seem - these things, to me, are signs of incredible strength. If he is weak, who is strong? It isn't easy to act freely - or at all - when you are hampered by a chronic disease. It isn't easy to grow morally and emotionally when you are in the clutches of an emotional abuser (as Sev is with Dumbledore). Yes, Severus is a sinner; he was wrong to join the Death Eaters, and he's wrong to blame Harry for existing. He's not perfect. But he's a hero in my eyes, all the same. I've said it before, but it bears saying again.
Mike remarked that he likes superheroes because they are proactive and get things done. That's probably the big difference between us, and why I find Severus much more heroic, and even inspirational, than he does. I do not like superheroes. Superman always bored me because he was basically invulnerable, and too good to be true. I liked Batman better because (as a reviewer commented when reviewing Batman Begins) he has no superpowers. He is strong because he has the discipline to work out; he can fight because he practices; he uses intelligence, the help of loyal friends, knowledge, and discipline to get the things done he wants to accomplish. Oh - and cool gadgets and lots of money. He has those, too, I grant you. But still, he is human, and a human haunted by demons. He is not perfect, and he has no superpowers. Superpowers bore me.
And what cartoon character did one of my fellow panelists compare Severus to? Batman!
That's it for me. A longer ramble than I intended, and I hope Mike doesn't mind my critique. I do enjoy his site, even though I often disagree with him.
1. Why Harry Potter is like Titanic, and why both of them annoy me, inspired by a conversation with Darkthirty.
2. Why Snape isn't weak, inspired by reading Mike-Smith, who thinks he is.
3. Finally, my problem with superheroes. Inspired by the conversation above.
I am, of course, starting with the first. Here is a quote from "The Independent". It's by Andrew Gumbel, and dated January, 2002.
The producers of Titanic besmirched the reputation of a Scottish officer called William Murdoch by depicting him shooting at the passengers in panic – an act committed by someone else entirely. After Murdoch's family pointed out that their ancestor was in fact a hero who gave away his own lifejacket, the producers gave $5,000 (£3,500) which went to a fund in Murdoch's name.
To which I said, good for Murdoch's family for complaining! That scene, among other things, annoyed me mightily when I saw Titanic. But it was not just an (eventually corrected) slander on a brave man. It was a part of a larger problem with the movie. Unlike the classic 1958 version, the new Hollywood film emphasizes the cowardice of the crew. We scarcely ever see a crewman simply doing his job, much less acting noble about it. Yet, according to the historic record, most of the men on board did exactly that, and that is why most of them died.
This brings me to my much, much larger problem with the movie. It is dealing with a real-life tragedy in which hundreds of innocent human beings died, and it attempts to make that tragedy more "interesting" by tacking on a contrived love story between a couple of fictional passengers. Then it ramps up the so-called interest by including cliched scenes - the young couple making love in the back seat of a car, the arrogant upper-class fiance pursuing the virtuous working-class youth with a pistol, and then cheating his way onto a lifeboat - that are apparently supposed to add drama to the story. This is offensive in the extreme. Again, we are dealing with a real-life tragedy in which more than 1,500 people died! Any movie about the Titanic should focus on that - not on a fictional love affair, or a necklace lost to the depths, or a painting of questionable value (and, when that so-called work of art was pulled intact from a safe that had been underwater for a couple of generations, any slack I'd been cutting the movie was gone for good.) I thought this film dishonored the dead.
How does this relate to Harry Potter? Quite simply, Rowling makes similar, and deliberate, use of the Nazi Holocaust. One can quibble about numbers, but there is simply no denying that anywhere up to 10 million human beings died in the Nazi camps and ghettos. (Jews, Poles, Russians, Gypsies, dissidents of all kinds - and the handicapped. They are too often forgotten.) And - Rowling uses the Nazi classification of half-bloods, and has it used by her good guys. She has the bad guys talking about blood purity, and giving something uncomfortably like the Nazi salute. She makes her chief villain a half-blood. There is simply no doubt that all of this is deliberate - but, as far as I can see, she doesn't deal with these very serious issues seriously. Instead, like the producers of Titanic she tacks on a non-story about a hero who never grows up. She throws in a lot of cliches from school stories, and, worst of all, by implication and in interviews, she says her bad guys are right! Magic really is genetic; all Muggleborns really do have a Wizarding ancestor somewhere; and Muggles who steal wands can produce bursts of uncontrolled (and therefore dangerous) magic.
Now, it's bad enough that she proves her villains right in her interviews, and that her hero ends up so unlikable. Far worse is that she is making use of a real tragedy to tell her story, and is not dealing seriously with that tragedy. It's highly offensive. What makes it even worse is the number of readers who simply accept her story as it stands and think that all is really well in the Wizarding World at the end of this saga. Nothing is well in the Wizarding World. Nothing at all. I would feel happier with these books if I could be certain Rowling meant that, but I would still dislike her borrowing Nazi imagery for her villains. It's tacky at best, and offensive at worst.
2. Now, the second question. Mike Smith insists that Severus Snape is weak because he did everything for Lily, who did not love him after his insult to her. He's not alone in thinking so; even some Snape fans are saying that DH Severus is a weaker character than they had imagined. Mr. Smith also said he agrees with Rowling, and that Severus is a worse person than Voldemort for betraying his beloved - because he was loved, and Voldemort never was. Let's look at these questions.
The betrayal, first. There are several things wrong with the story Rowling finally gave us. For one thing, we never really understand what Dark Arts are, why young Severus was attracted to them (if he was; that's not so clear, either), and why he joined the Death Eaters in the first place. But, even given all these open questions, it's quite clear that Severus did not know he was betraying Lily when he reported the prophecy. Heck, it's even doubtful that the prophecy refers to a baby. I was among the readers who thought it could mean Severus himself. A second problem, though, is even harder to understand. Given that Sev was a Death Eater at the time, it makes some sense that he might report the prophecy. But - why didn't Dumbledore stop him? He was a kid, no more than 20 or 21, and, Aberforth had him by the collar. Dumbledore was a mature, powerful wizard. He has had no problems confunding and obliviating others in the story - then why not do likewise to Severus? But Aberforth and Albus let the boy go to do whatever he wanted - and then Albus Dumbledore, at least, blamed him for acting in a way that was easy to anticipate. This makes no sense.
So the story of the prophecy, in the end, just doesn't hang together. Maybe, though, Mike is talking about an earlier betrayal? Maybe he means that Sev betrayed Lily when he became a Death Eater.
This is possible, but it again requires several assumptions. First, you need to assume that Severus knew Voldemort's true agenda, and also approved of it. This is doubtful. After all, as I mentioned above, anti-Muggle racism is rife on the "good side" in the Wizarding World. And we don't know how Voldemort presented his agenda to his impressionable young followers. We do know that he snagged most of them very young.
Second, you need to assume that Sev really was a Dark Arts geek and really believed in Voldemort's agenda (however it was presented). This is also doubtful. I simply do not see a power-hungry or sadistic person in the rather gentle, lost soul Rowling presents to us, particularly in the last book. It seems likely that he joined for companionship, belonging, or even protection.
This brings me to my third point. If Severus betrayed Lily by joining the Death Eaters, she also betrayed him, much earlier. She sided with his tormentors. And we know from DH that they began tormenting him without cause, and they were relentless. I think it's possible for a reader to sympathize with, and be critical of, both Sev and Lily in the Pensieve scene. But, as Jodel has remarked, the Wizarding World is very small. Once you are typed in school, there is no escape. If an influential and wealthy group within this world made your life a living hell for seven years, and if someone opposed that group and offered you (1) protection, and (2) a chance to get back at them, wouldn't you be tempted?
This brings me to the question of Severus as (1) more culpable than Riddle, because he has been loved, and (2) weak. After I read DH, one of my first questions was, "Who loved Severus"? Lily certainly didn't. Yes, they had a casual, childish friendship, but I wouldn't call that love. That Severus did, and that he clung to Lily so desperately, indicates just how bleak his life was. It seems that he never got unconditional love from anyone - not his parents, not Lily, and certainly not Dumbledore.
Young Tom Riddle was emotionally neglected. His mother abandoned him because of her death, and he grew up in an orphanage. I understand that even negative attention is better than no attention, but negative attention can be pretty damaging, and, based on his reactions, I'd guess that's what young Sev got. He doesn't seem to know how to relate to people, and he accepts emotional abuse as his due. Is that weak?
I can see why some readers would think so. I don't. As I've said before, Severus, as a young adult*, shows clear signs of clinical depression. That he remembers what little affection he received with such faithfulness and gratitude (shown by his patronus); that he soldiers on and meets all his obligations; that he manages to grow morally and emotionally with no support at all, however stunted he may still seem - these things, to me, are signs of incredible strength. If he is weak, who is strong? It isn't easy to act freely - or at all - when you are hampered by a chronic disease. It isn't easy to grow morally and emotionally when you are in the clutches of an emotional abuser (as Sev is with Dumbledore). Yes, Severus is a sinner; he was wrong to join the Death Eaters, and he's wrong to blame Harry for existing. He's not perfect. But he's a hero in my eyes, all the same. I've said it before, but it bears saying again.
Mike remarked that he likes superheroes because they are proactive and get things done. That's probably the big difference between us, and why I find Severus much more heroic, and even inspirational, than he does. I do not like superheroes. Superman always bored me because he was basically invulnerable, and too good to be true. I liked Batman better because (as a reviewer commented when reviewing Batman Begins) he has no superpowers. He is strong because he has the discipline to work out; he can fight because he practices; he uses intelligence, the help of loyal friends, knowledge, and discipline to get the things done he wants to accomplish. Oh - and cool gadgets and lots of money. He has those, too, I grant you. But still, he is human, and a human haunted by demons. He is not perfect, and he has no superpowers. Superpowers bore me.
And what cartoon character did one of my fellow panelists compare Severus to? Batman!
That's it for me. A longer ramble than I intended, and I hope Mike doesn't mind my critique. I do enjoy his site, even though I often disagree with him.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 06:59 am (UTC)I completely and totally disagree. The Severus we see in Harry's school years is already a good person. He is the man who jumps out of bed because he hears someone in pain. He does not stop even though on his way he notices his office (which contains sensitive and possibly expensive or hard to come by ingredients) was broken into. Only when he learns that nobody was in danger or suffering (because the screaming came from Harry's Triwizard egg) does he consider the break in or the fact that Harry was breaking curfew (again).
The Severus we see in Harry's school years is also the man who was in anguish that a student (whose identity he did not know at the time) was taken to the Chamber of Secrets and he was unable to save hir.
The Severus we see in Harry's years is the teacher who teaches the subject that is the most dangerous in the first few years and he makes an effort to keep them all safe despite their inattention and lack of appreciation of the situation - hence the strict and demanding attitude, hence the presence of antidotes and hence the intolerance of unpredictable factors such as the presence of a toad in the class. He teaches an advanced curriculum, and 1 in 4 students gets an Outstanding.
While he occasionally gives unpleasant detentions he never gives detentions that place students in danger or in pain (as opposed to McGonagall and Umbridge), nor does he ever - in class, in the dueling club, in the corridors or ground expose students to any risk he can't control (as opposed to Remus, Hagrid, Lockhart and the schemer Dumbledore).
Snape can't do that. He only cares about Harry because of his connection to Lily.
As I have showed, Severus cares about everyone. He saves everyone he can save, he goes out of his way for everyone. He treats Sirius when he is at his mercy with compassion, while Sirius treats Severus with callousness.
So he is insults kids and adults. Big deal. After all he does for them, why do the insults even matter?
And that's what makes him weak, because in the midst of all that goes on, his focus is squarely on himself. That's why he sought Lily's approval while simultaneously striving for greater power via the Dark Arts. It doesn't matter what they are or how they work. The point is that Lily hates the Dark Arts and Snape can't (or won't) understand that he can't have both.,/i>
It matters very much that the Dark Arts are ill-defined. It shows that Lily and her Gryffindor friends have a shallow concept of morality where an action is judged by arbitrary classification by some bureaucratic system rather than by the actual possible consequences of the actions in the context of the situation where those actions took place. If a person can be drowned by Scourgify then using the spell in such a way is worse than a mild and controlled application of Sectumsempra. And if the Marauders nearly killed Severus by setting wereRemus on him then their supposed avoidance of Dark Arts is hypocritical, and Lily's preference of the Marauders' 'jokes' over Mulciber's is meaningless. I can understand Severus' confusion, I'd be confused too in his place.
Snape's still whining about Harry's dad decades later, and taking out his frustrations on whoever's convenient.
Severus mentions James in Harry's presence 5 times in canon, and in all but one of these times it is in response to when Harry is behaving like James at his worst. Considering that James made Severus' schooldays into living hell and Severus finds himself protecting James' ungrateful son I'd say he brings James up sparingly and almost always only under extreme circumstances, in situations that appear to be flashbacks. (The only other time is when Severus is riling Sirius up while discussing the upcoming Occlumency lessons.)
no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 02:02 pm (UTC)I'd also like to point to "only those I could not save". That line always gets left out by the Snape haters - but we really do see moral growth in Severus Snape, and he's about the only character in the entire saga who shows this. Neville (my other favorite) grows, too, but primarily in competence and confidence. He's a decent person, as far as we can tell, from start to finish. As for Harry - cardigrl has shown that he grows, too, but in the wrong direction. From being a pretty likable little kid, he goes to being a bully, a cheater, a liar, and a torturer, and he is never sorry for anything he does.
The person who is sorry for the harm he has done, however selfish his reasons and however stunted he may seem, is always preferable in my eyes to the person who never makes amends or apologizes for anything.
no subject
Date: 2009-08-10 04:56 pm (UTC)ACK. Sorry, but that sort of attitude - 'it's all about X' - makes me cringe no matter what fandom I see it in. I can understand only being into something for the sake of one character, but insisting that said character (or small group of characters ) are the only ones who matter...it just screams 'tunnel vision'.
'Harry is never sorry for anything' - the first thing that leapt to mind was him apologising to Ginny for forgetting she knows what it's like to be possessed. Not to mention reconciling with Ron and Hermione over their various fights and apologising to Dumbledore for losing focus on getting the memory from Slughorn.
Oh, and he flat-out calls Snape 'the bravest man I ever met' (which is up against some impressive competition) and names one of his children after the man. I'd call that pretty mature of him, given that Snape was an accomplice to the murder of both his parents.
Fairness to Harry
Date: 2009-08-12 07:34 pm (UTC)And in a sense to Snape, safely posthumusly, once he's been convinced Snape was on his side all along.
But is he ever sorry for hexing a helpless Squib? For tormenting his cousin with (fake) threats of magic? For hexing Slytherins in the corridors? For cheating repeatedly in class and in an international competition? For lying, repeatedly? For stealing and benefiting from others' thefts, again repeatedly? For casting the Cruciatus Curse?
The only time we see Harry feel anything resembling remorse over anything he does to an enemy is when he casts Sectumsempra on Draco. We read then that he's "horrified by what he had done." But he'd cast that spell, of course, not knowing in advance what he'd be doing and not expecting the result. A few chapters later Harry has no qualms at all about casting the spell in earnest, and the Cruciatus too.
Moreover, even in his moment of "horror", Harry's very first priority was holding onto the Prince's book to learn more goodies from it (and to continue to cheat in class). Harry was resentful of Snape's having the nerve to punish him (for almost killing or maiming another student) with multiple detentions (which punishment his own Head of House characterized as overly lenient). He's soon demonstrably more upset at disappointing the Quidditch team by missing the game than he is at having almost killed someone. Very like his godfather, in fact, although Harry does have the grace to feel a "slight squirm" of conscience.
In the real world, if a nearly sixteen-year-old picked up a gun which he knew MIGHT(or might not) be loaded and fired it at the chest of a boy he's fighting with, almost killed the other boy (would have killed him had not someone else showed up in time with the skills to stop the bleeding) and afterwards felt only a "slight squirm" of conscience and an eager desire to get his hands on more weapons, what would we think?
(And yes, I do remember that Draco was attempting to cast Cruciatus. Which would not have killed Harry, even had Draco been capable of casting it "properly", which neither we nor Harry know to have been the case. Harry, however, was a master of Expelliarmus, good at Stupefy, adequate a Petrificus... he had a whole arsenal of spells he could have used to neutralize Draco without harming him in the slightest. Instead, he used a spell of unknown properties--like I said, like a teen grabbing a gun which he knows might be loaded. And worse, after knowing the effects, Harry wants to go back for more such spells.)
Re: Fairness to Harry
Date: 2009-08-13 04:09 pm (UTC)As for 'cheating in an international competition'....are you for real? He never ASKED to be in the Triwizard in the first place and was up against dragons, mermen and the like. Somehow I don't blame him for accepting help.
'For casting the Cruciatus Curse' - he tried to use it on Bellatrix, who had just murdered his GODFATHER, and failed. He tried it on Snape, who had just killed Dumbledore, but IIRC Snape just blocked it so we have no way of knowing if it would have worked. He uses it successfully on Carrow, who had been using his friends as knife-sharpeners - remember Neville?
Plus, he kinda had more immediate concerns in the third case - staying alive, keeping his friends and finding the remaining Horcruxes among them.
'Hexing a helpless Squib' - who willingly sided with Umbridge the previous year and was going to have two 17-year-olds WHIPPED. Briefly having one's tongue stuck to the roof of one's mouth seems kinda lenient in comparison.
He used Sectumsempra on Malfoy entirely out of instinct, while Malfoy was busy throwing curses at him. This does NOT make the results any more palatable, but once it became clear that Malfoy was going to live...well, this is Mr 'Mudbloods and Muggle-lovers first...well, second, DIGGORY was the first' we're talking about.
Re: Fairness to Harry
Date: 2009-08-13 05:53 pm (UTC)Thanks.
Only two comments on yours - of course there are shades of grey here. But the "sectumsempra" incident that bothers me isn't so much the one with Draco. Harry's just dumb here, but he's in a panic and I can understand him using the spell. When he plots to hit McLaggen in the back with it, he's both dumb and malicious. As to Filch, who made Harry his judge, jury and executioner? It is not Harry's job to punish him, no matter how nasty you find Filch. It's also true that Filch is handicapped, while Harry is a powerful young wizard.
Otherwise, let's just agree to differ, if you don't mind.
Re: Fairness to Harry
Date: 2009-08-13 08:09 pm (UTC)Canon question - isn't the Cruciatus supposed to be unblockable? Or was Barty's information that distorted?
He uses it successfully on Carrow, who had been using his friends as knife-sharpeners - remember Neville?
But at the time Harry had cast it the curse served no purpose other than belated revenge. And neither do I justify him casting it on Bellatrix or Severus - while I understand why he wanted to it was still wrong to do it. It does not serve the purpose of fighting a true or believed enemy, it does not make the people he is supposed to be protecting any safer. Immobilize your enemy, incarcerate hir, do something to stop hir, but what is the point of torturing hir?
Plus, he kinda had more immediate concerns in the third case - staying alive, keeping his friends and finding the remaining Horcruxes among them.
So why waste time on torturing people for his enjoyment (and yes, he did admit enjoying it)?
As for his bathroom duel with Draco - why does Draco's past justify using an unknown spell on him? Harry was in danger - so he should have used spells he knew to be effective in that situation.
Re: Fairness to Harry
Date: 2009-08-13 09:12 pm (UTC)'but what is the point of torturing hir?'
Uh, in the first two cases Harry had just seen someone he cared deeply about murdered.
I'm not saying that makes using a Crucio cool, but sheesh. How do you expect someone in that situation to react - to think their every subsequent action through perfectly despite the heat of the moment, or to just throw the worst thing they can think of at the loved one's murderer?
As for Draco's past, I was referring to Harry's lack of great regret later on rather than to his actual use of the spell.
Re: Fairness to Harry
Date: 2009-08-13 09:35 pm (UTC)At the very least I expect him after the fact to wonder what kind of person he was becoming and to start working on self-control. But he does not, so instead his fuse only becomes shorter and his lack of control easier to provoke.
Your responses are in accordance with the values Dumbledore and Rowling promote - that seeking revenge is an expression of love, that one can be vengeful and pure of heart at the same time. I lean towards the teachings of Yoda - seeking revenge is the way to the dark side of the force. While wishing ill on someone who harmed oneself or one's loved ones is a natural reaction it isn't a good one. It is better to become aware of such feelings and learn not to be affected by them.
As for Draco's past, I was referring to Harry's lack of great regret later on rather than to his actual use of the spell.
Err, that only makes it worse in my eyes. After the fact, when he had time to rethink his actions he does not regret them because he nearly killed someone who in the past made some threats that at the time he had no way of carrying out?